Last knights Forum

[Q3/4 2020] Hero System Overhaul - By Tiralan

Dear players, we are looking at a complete overhaul of the hero system. That includes its levelling, its item management, its skill-growth, its usage, tournaments, impact on pvp, impact on ranking-success, basically everything is up for discussion in this change. I will start with pointing out things I see as issues within the current system. Then I will try to explain how I envision the new system. A lot of it is in my head, and I hope that I'm able to put it in text without it losing sense.

Current problems and reasons for change:

• In the current system hero level decides what items a hero can equip/wear. That decides its strength, resilience and basically all odds to win or lose. The hero-system has a decent amount of RNG in it, but still, rankers (= high hero level) have advantage in almost any hero mechanic because they have access to better items earlier than pvpers (= lower hero level).

• The way the hero-points are divided is pretty much linked to how many battles you are able to do with your hero. Again, this favours rankers over pvpers and can be added to the above point. But this also leads to complete maxed out heroes at a fairly early stage of ranking. I believe its somewhere under 100k commander exp, that a hero maxes out, while the ranking medal is mostly decided way beyond that point. We could argue that the promotion exp's of the current ranks should change, or less exp should be handed out for commanders, but lets still argue from the existing system. My point here is, that everybody is able to get every single skill possible maxed out, with just a little bit of ranking commitment. Of course, this is harder for a pvp-hero, but that's a choice a pvper made. They chose the pvp ranking over the ranking medal. In my opinion that should not mean that they also opt out for a hero medal.

• Support heroes are not used as they are supposed to be used. Again, if you are a ranker on the higher end, you will even end up with support heroes being able to carry all items possible in the hero system, can could even beat pvp-duellist heroes, just by items. That's wrong and unintended. Now we could ban support heroes (= heroes that are not trained in the duellist skill) from the tournament, but again, maxed out rankers will just put duellist on all his/hers heroes for the same result of dominating pvp-heroes.

• Basically, nobody has to make real choices when it comes to hero builds. Everybody has access to everything that is important. And even though that results into a boring, linear meta game, that's not even the biggest concern. My problem is on the flip-side, that nobody can make a difference by choosing a keen setup or keen usages of the experience points of a heroes. There is just not enough room in the current system to make a difference. And that I find a true pity.

Proposed Changes:

• Hero Level and Hero Exp will be gone. Instead, Heroes will get x Skill Points to spend per Commander Rank.

• Weight (= how many items you can equip) per hero level will be gone, instead you get weight per x Skill Points spent.

• Hero Level unlocking items/equipment will be gone, Instead you will be able to unlock items based on x Skill Points you spent into a certain skill. Example, you will need 10 healing to unlock bandages, 20 healing to unlock herbs, etc. That also goes for Armour, Shields, Weapons etc etc.

• The New Hero Skills will have 5 levels. For example Healing and Merchant will have 5 levels, instead of 50 it has now. However, the 5 levels will work exactly the same and comparable with the current 10-20-30-40-50 values of the skill.

• The New Hero Skills will form a tree, instead of all of them being able to learn from the get go. In order words, Some skills have to be unlocked by learning the skill prior to it on the skill tree. This makes sure people have to make choices. In the new system you won't get enough points to unlock all skills. Give or take half of what is possible in the current system.

• There will be new hero skills created to enhance the duel game play. That will have impact on duels in pvps and possibly in the tournaments (pending tournament changes). For example I'm thinking about a skill that has a chance to kill your opponents horse, or steal a piece of equipment. Also ideas for more supportive skills for heroes are being created. Likely there will be a skill to reduce hospital bills, or to reduce the cost of spying and increase the accuracy of spying. There will also be a skill to increase the values of the merchant items. We even have ideas to give supportive buffs in battle. Like extra defence against incoming ranged attacks. Note that these skills won't be for free, and at the end of a tree. So you would have to unlock 2 other skills first, before this (powerful) skill unlocks for your hero. It might suit ranking armies, where a full pvp army couldn't care less, and that is the beauty of the system in my eyes. The possibilities are endless. I came up with a tree that has equal duellist skills and support skills. The points are evenly divided, and I think you will be able to complete 80% of one full tree. If you want to combine aspects of both sides of the tree, that will be possible, but that will be up to you. Keep in mind that if you want to wear certain pieces of equipment, you will have to unlock them by learning certain skills. So here a more tactical game play comes in, where your choices can make a difference. They could have an edge in duels, but also in the battles itself.

• As noted in point 6, there will be skills to reduce certain costs. Think of hospital bill, spying, the merchant system and other things that might impact your gold-balance. Note that this will also come with a general increase of these actions. A single spy action might gonna cost 10.000 gold for example. But if your support heroes all have Spy-skill maxed, that will be reduced significantly. On the matter of spying, current basic accuracy is set to 95%, we will lower that to a accuracy of 50%, and your heroes can bring this accuracy up again to 95% by the same Spy skill. What I am trying to say is: I don't want to change how the game works. I don't want to make everything as hard as possible. But what I do want, is to give you all a choice when it comes to heroes. Do you want a complete beast in tournaments when having a pvp army (= not going above marshal/knight). Sure! Lets have it, you will have a chance to compete at this rank for the hero medal. On the flip side, you might be missing some points which might make other actions of yours more expensive. I'm trying to create a balance there, in which gold matters, and in which you can choose how you spent it and how high your income is.

Disclaimer:

The details of everything above are not set in stone. If you don't agree with a certain detail, don't worry yet. The goal of this topic is if you agree to the principle change that is proposed. So don't tell me yet that you don't want the spy-system adjusted, or you don't like army buffs by heroes. This topic is for feedback on the system that you unlock skills in a tree-structure, and that items/equipment is linked towards that. This topic is (hopefully) showing you how you can have a choice that has a game play and an impact on itself, instead of every player doing the same setup every single age. If most are in favour, and/or if you can point at parameters I didn't think of or I should think of or even if you think I should not even try, then speak it all out. Be constructive, be creative, think outside the box. But think with me, not against me. The Hero rework will happen, as it's pretty much flawed. But in what way, and how big the impact will be, you can all be part of. This is merely my proposal, which I gave a good amount of thought to as both a player and a dev/admin. Non-constructive posts will be deleted. Not because I cant handle critics, but I really want to have a healthy and in depth discussion on this matter.

In all fairness. The fact nobody bothered to reply here should say something. This game needs more players. Fun part is that a skill tree isn't the worst of ideas, but I would like to see examples before commenting any further.

I don't see a spree of new players any time soon. The game has been a doornail dodo for the past 6 years.

I would like to see a full list of suggested skills and a (rough) version of the skill tree you have in mind. Reason being is that it will be easier to judge.

As others have said before..you need new players and need to retain them...times may have changed since I played original tlk...but I think this version is dumbed down, with a dwindling player base that loves the game, but are suffering from serious burnout. Worry about getting a player base back, even if it means adding from the old tlk to get there..ty

Hero changes probably already in effect. Like the 1 participant to limit support rankers dominating... best idea possible there.
But overall a change to heroes into a skill tree would be a great change too.
Maybe with some sort of quest line system. Ie you can't get healing 5(50) without healing x amount of units that aren't yours. The best healers are helpers.
Or merch 50 can't be unlocked unless you hold 6 items and get another without selling a spot. Silly but I can't think of anything else that isn't just rng related.

As for item weights and such...America system is trash. Like 10 to 18 either has free space for no real gain (15str 30pike for 2 slot more than 15str) or there's too much (only thing to upgrade from 16 to 18 is weapon which is a 3-4 weight cost so hard to fit it in) it's kind of a mess.
The strongest arty is a strong melee but not used till like lvl 20. And even then the best melee is only 28 I think. Barely 2 str more than getting 90 rstr for Like 2 weight.

Why take even more incentive away from ranking? What would be the point of your heroes suck and your army gets wrecked even more? Everything isn’t supposed to be even. There’s pros and cons of ranking vs pvping, heroes are just one of them.

Since we have to buy items for our hero's , why not let the players buy items for themselves?...maybe if that was possible I wouldn't of been Kia,d 3 times out of the last 4 or 5 ages..